BH Balanced Hackmons - Mega Diancie banned! Liquid Ooze banned!

Don Bozo

Banned deucer.
Greetings. In this post I will not be posting sets. I will post the first team I have made since the MGar ban. I call it the Bird Balance. It is a balanced team utilising PsySurge MMY and Pixilate MDiancie as its main breakers alongside a whole flock of birds to cripple the enemy team.


This team runs RegenVest Lugia, Yveltal and Ho-oh as its main defensive core. The goal of the first two mons is to knock and spread paralysis while Ho-oh is there as a bulky threat which can spread poison. Once the enemy team is sufficiently weakened or paralysed, you can try to use MMY or MDiancie to get a kill. Chansey is the last member as a versatile glue which is important in a volatile meta. With that brief introduction out of the way, let’s get right into the team.



When I first built this team, I wanted to make sure that it can deal with MMX, MMY and DeoA. I think everyone is slowly beginning to realise that the aforementioned three mons can break any core depending on the coverage it runs thanks to its incredible mixed offences and high speed. Nevertheless this mon along with Yveltal can handle most variants. Worst case scenario, MDiancie can revenge kill with FakeSpeed. Knock Off and Nuzzle are all great support moves. Magic Guard is becoming more popular since the substitute and poison heal ban so the value of paralysis has gone up over poison in my opinion. Thanks to Lugia’s massive massive bulk, you can easily tank any ghost move and Knock Spooky Plates as well. This also lets you get rid of Covert Cloak so you can paralyse enemy mons. Unlike DeoA, the Mewtwos are quite bulky so we must resort to using OHKO moves (Nuzzle) to deal with them effectively. I’ll now talk about an interesting move: Future Sight. It is no secret that Lugia is not a very threatening mon. However, it is able to exert offensive pressure by using Future Sight. The idea is to use Future Sight, click Volt Switch into MMY or MDiancie and destroy whatever check wants to come in. Unfortunately the Future Sight hit uses the user’s (Lugia) SpAtk stat but it still does significant damage when boosted by Psychic Terrain. I will also make another post talking about Future Sight RegenVest Mewtwo after this because I believe those sets might be good. I’ll go into the damage more when we get to MMY.



The next mon is Volt Absorb Yveltal. This acts as Lugia and MMY’s Imposter proof and can deal with Mewtwo/Deo sets that run Electro Drift as their coverage for Yveltal. It is also useful because it stops Volt Switch. Knock Off and Nuzzle are here for the same reasons as they are present on Lugia. You can also trap imposters with Spirit Shackle and pp stall them out. Strength Sap is here for recovery but it is interchangeable with standard Recover if you see a lot of sap blockers.



Magic Guard Ho-oh is one of my favourite mons and he’s here to provide hazard control, spam Flare Blitz and poison walls. Unfortunately I don’t want to run a different mon to imposter proof it so I can’t run Brave Bird. Shackle is here to let you 1v1 imposter just like Yveltal. Non WBB steels do not want to take a Flare Blitz so your Mortal Spin is difficult to block. This Ho-oh also serves as a MDiancie wall as most do not carry rock coverage. Most of the time, you’ll simply be clicking Flare Blitz or Mortal Spin.



It’s finally time to talk about MMY. This mon is extremely strong and has access to one of the most broken moves available: Lumina Crash. Hopefully you have managed to Knock Off enemy Covert Cloaks before bringing this in but if you have, you can basically 2HKO, if not OHKO everything. Your Yveltal completely walls this set so make sure it does not die, but untransformed Chansey can also wall it. Now let’s talk about Lugia’s Future Sight. If you click Future Sight, Volt Switch into MMY and Lumina Crash, you’ll get a Psychic Terrain, +2 boosted Future Sight on top of the specs Lumina Crash.

I’ll now explain Future Sight briefly.

The way Future Sight works is that it uses the user’s base special attack and typing. So in this case, you’ll get Lugia’s 90 base SpAtk and its STAB. This damage is not affected by the user’s (Lugia) item or abilities if it switches out, nor is it affected by the current mon (MMY). However, you can still boost it through Beads of Ruin or Psychic Terrain. Let’s see how powerful it is, assuming you clicked FS, Volt Switch into MMY and then click Lumina Crash.

252 SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Lumina Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre-Primal in Psychic Terrain: 118-141 (29.2 - 34.9%) -- 11.1% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Lugia Future Sight vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre-Primal in Psychic Terrain: 135-160 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You can see that it actually does more damage than the MMY itself. Now of course the psychic terrain and spdef drop was from the MMY but it still remains that in most cases, you’ll do over double your usual damage in one turn. Another example I’ll give is that you can guarantee “2HKO” Ice Scales Arceus.

252 SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Lumina Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ice Scales Arceus in Psychic Terrain: 110-129 (24.7 - 29%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO

252 SpA Lugia Future Sight vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ice Scales Arceus in Psychic Terrain: 126-148 (28.3 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO

It’s up to you to decide if this is a meme but I think the ability to overwhelm defensive walls deserves attention.



The next offensive threat is MDiancie. This is a classic set that most people will be familiar with. Fairy/Ground is great coverage and FakeSpeed provides speed control. Hopefully again you have knocked off Covert Cloaks so your Fake Out can flinch. There’s not much to say other than you bring this in and try to kill stuff. Imposterproofed by Ho-oh which is itself quite a strong mon.



To round out the team we have Imposter Chansey. I never think about adding this mon because it is always useful.


Now I will talk briefly about the weakness of the team. The biggest weakness is setup sweepers. Thanks to the sub ban and the strength of nukes (Mewtwo, DeoA) I think setup sweepers have fallen off since it is now possible to brute force walls through sheer damage from Protean, Specs and LO. I think the meta has gotten faster to where you don’t need setup sweepers to win anymore. However, simple no retreat ghosts are still viable and extremely threatening. You have to keep Yveltal healthy and try paralyse them so you can hax your way through. Other than that, KyuB is very threatening since there is no ice resist on this team. I originally had Beads of Ruin on MMY but Psychic Surge is better against KyuB though it makes our own MDiancie worse. I think it’s a tradeoff you can make.

I hope you give this team a try or at least enjoy reading this team review.
 
Stuff I’ve been using recently.


Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker/Sword of Ruin/Steelworker
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Gigaton Hammer
- Flower Trick
- V-create/Precipice Blades
- Bullet Punch/Flip Turn

This is a pretty cool wallbreaker that can break past the surge in Fairy/Water Fur Coat users, and deal absolutely ridiculous damage to anything that isn’t a resist.
Improof w/ Ho-Oh, Miraidon, or some random Well Baked Body (or Primordial Sea) Steel-type.


Kyurem-White @ Choice Specs
Ability: Refrigerate
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Volt Switch
- Freeze-Dry/Focus Blast/Earth Power/Spikes
- Trick/Extreme Speed (run full atk + spdef lowering nature with this)
This can exploit structures relying on Groundceus/Yveltal/Ting-Lu as (one of) their SpDef users. Couple this with No Retreat Ghost-types & the other opponent won’t be able to have fun (unless if they bring scales pogre but just click volt lol)
Improof w/ Chansey, or a Steel-type Regenvest that isn’t weak to Ground/Fighting.


Steelix-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Stone Axe
- Mortal Spin/Nuzzle/Rapid Spin
- Knock Off/Dragon Tail/Gigaton Hammer/whatever utility you want

Pretty cool mixed wall that matches up quite nicely into most of the major stuff rn (MDiancie, non mixed MMY, both of the U-Turn bots mostly, etc)
Improof same way as you’d improof your typical Regenvest.
 

LordBox

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Hi, I'm back again. After playing around a bit more I managed to find another team with a cool mon that has worked pretty well. Granted, it was just a small bit of ladder so this team could still be bad but I'll take top 5 on ladder at least for someone who isn't an expert at the meta (also the ladder salt indicates the team can do one thing well, at least).

CB Kyurem-B Balance

:kyurem-black::arceus-fairy::registeel::giratina::audino-mega:(:deoxys-attack:/:ho-oh:/:kartana:/:blaziken-mega:)

Main team I used to ladder up, with the main idea of big Kyurem-B as a breaker and the rest of the team acts as the defensive backbone to wear down the opposing team and get Kyurem-B in to break, trying to stack up hazards, Poison chip and Salt Cure spam with Knock Off (which alone can win games against ladder, and make people very mad). Spent a decent time crafting this so I decided I might as well explain the sets in deeper detail.

:sv/Kyurem-Black:

in (Kyurem-Black) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Glaive Rush
- Glacial Lance
- Headlong Rush
- V-create

Cool wallbreaker which the team was centred around. With base 120 BP STABs and an immense 170 base attack boosted by an Adamant nature, Sword of Ruin and Choice Band, anything switching in neutrally took very hefty chunks, with neutral Fur Coat mons like FairyCeus taking around 40+ from STABs. Akira brought up that Water and Steel types in general were less popular recently and that Kyurem-B might be cool ad I decided to roll with that. Rest of the team is mainly centred on helping Kyurem-B break through its neutral checks like FC Fairyceus/Ghostceus and often it might find basically 0 switch-ins, but this is ladder. I originally considered Mold Breaker but its lack of ability force things out was a bit annoying, missing a few OHKO thresholds on things like Primal Kyogre. VDance (or honestly, SD) could've been ok as well but I preferred the immediate power to wear down recovery against neutral checks. You could maybe consider running Volt Tackle for the Water-types but you give up coverage in V-Create or Headlong which isn't fun.

:sv/arceus-fairy:

incomprehensible (Arceus-Fairy) @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Judgment
- Strength Sap
- Parting Shot

This came about as my Fur Coat mon after a weird process. Originally Prankster Dondozo was my improof for MBreaker Kyu-B but I needed a sturdy FC mon to pair up and Fairyceus came up as a cool mon. Eventually after swapping to SoR I realised Fairyceus can just improof Dondozo anyway so here it is. Outside of Dondozo it can take a lot of things neutrally fine like MMX and the annoying Power Trip Dark-types I keep seeing on ladder that piss me off. Originally I was using Covert Cloak + Magical Torque but decided to swap to Pixie Plate to give me a Knock Absorber and help improof with my Giratina. Still could use though since MMX is broken sob. Rapid Spin was here because Judgement can kinda scare out the few Ghost types and I didn't rely on Mortal Spin as my only removal, but could potentially be replaced. Also tempted to run Teleport for guaranteed slow pivot as it can be a bit annoying to have fast pivot.

:sv/Giratina:

inverted sense (Giratina) @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Ice Scales
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Mortal Spin
- Recover
- Astral Barrage
- Knock Off

This team wanted to be able to setup hazards and mostly keep them there so I wanted a Ghost-type and my Ice Scales slot at the time (which was Miraidon before) was fairly free so I decided that Giratina can't be that bad as an Ice Scales mon surely. It's typing isn't ideal defensively, with a Fairy, Ghost and Dragon weakness, however it does work pretty well regardless due to how thick it is, being able to take stray Protean MMY Astral Barrages and Boomburst Pixilate Diancie in a pinch to Knock/Mortal Spin/Astral. This neutral bulk allows it to pretty comfortably check things like MMY... and uh, other mons I find on ladder like Rayquaza and other Psychics (This mon is real I swear). I needed a Knocker here and Giratina had a free slot so here it goes and helps Mortal Spin be annoying. That being said Mortal Spin can still be annoyingly blocked by Steels and Knock makes my improof in Registeel annoyed, so these two moves could be potentially changed and Knock fitted somewhere else.

:sv/registeel:

heaven sent (Registeel) @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Primordial Sea
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Salt Cure
- Roost
- Parting Shot
- Spikes

Honestly a very cool mon, even if pretty passive. With Fairyceus and Giratina I realised Kartana and Fairy-types presented real bad times for my defensive structure, and my saviour is here. Checking very important threats like Kartana, V-Create Diancie, Specs Sceptile as well as random V-Create Desoland mons you might see on ladder, it serves as a key defensive lynchpin. Also serves as a secondary check to MMY, which is always nice to have just in case. Utility moves are just there to be annoying, Salt Cure bullies Chansey Impostors and Spikes help to wear down FC mons coming in on Kyu-B while PShot allows it to do something meaningful to the breakers it comes in on. It is somewhat passive and prone to just getting spammed on by something like Diancie so it's worth maybe putting like Gigaton or something on it.. Also nicely improofs a lot of random stuff you could use in the 6th slot like Deo-A, Kartana and Desolate Land Reshiram.

:sv/audino-mega:

back again (Audino-Mega) @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stone Axe
- Recover
- Parting Shot
- Salt Cure

Lastly I was still fairly prone to Ghost types being spooky and I also wanted a Magic Bounce mon for general utility and also to sapblock FC mons to further wear them down from Kyu-B to go break them down. Mega Audino popped up and was a natural fit. Parting Shot is necessary to check SNR Ghostceus while Stone Axe adds more hazards to chip down annoying walls. Salt Cure here is just general utility and to further wear down the enemy to clean up.

6th Slot Options (All Improofed by Registeel)

:sv/ho-oh:

chicken from above (Ho-Oh) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Heal Bell
- Morning Sun
- Flare Blitz / V-Create
- Mortal Spin / Head Smash (?)

This mon composes an option for the final last slot which I never really decided on what was best. Fire + Flying types affords a secondary Fairy check as Registeel can commonly be overwhelmed, particularly against Ground coverage Diancie and even as a secondary cope Kartana check. Heal Bell was nice utility but is replaceable for whatever utility like pivot or smth if you don't want Impostor to exploit the Heal Bell for the opposing team. FBlitz is here for its large PP and lack of drops and because I'm not sure if any thresholds are met by using V-Create but it probably doesn't matter that much. Last slot is just for general utility and can dissuade Impostor by Poison or even Head Smash (which doesn't OHKO btw, disgusting bulk....).

:sv/deoxys-attack:

break down (Deoxys-Attack) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Flower Trick
- Fleur Cannon
- Lumina Crash
- V-create

The team was feeling a bit passive, so why not slot in another breaker? Deo-A is slotted here as another major progress maker by blowing shit up. Flower Trick hits Primal Kyogre (Volt Tackle could also work but I hate the recoil), Fleur Cannon hits the Darks and generally is quite powerful for the Fur Coat mons. Lumina is self-explanatory as a broken move and V-Create serves to smack stuff like Dialga-O and RegenVest Solgaleo/Steelix real hard. The team was quite slow as well, so this helps just in case I get overwhelmed.

:sv/kartana:

over (Kartana) @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker / Steelworker / Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gigaton Hammer
- Flower Trick
- U-turn
- V-create

This one I haven't tested myself mind you but I have seen been used by others to a very threatening result and is a neat option that probably can be used as well due to Registeel being a neat Improof on the team. Also pairs well to pressure Fur Coat mons who might wall KyuB like MSlowbro and FC Fairyceus. Team is still quite slow so BPunch over U-turn might be ok? But probably isn't worth it.

:sv/blaziken-mega:

impostor? (Blaziken-Mega) @ Life Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- V-create
- Solar Beam
- Mean Look
- Strength Sap

I saw Blaziken on the VR and thought that seemed like a fun mon to abuse given that Registeel improofs rather securely and could be a neat progress maker which could troll annoying MSlowbro's for KyuB. Main issue was I had no idea the actual set it usually used so I just created my own... the main issue with Blaziken is it kinda sucks into impostor so I had some options. Cope with a normal Growth mixed set, ditch recovery or cook some dumb shit. Going with the 4th option, Mean Look serves to bait Impostor by trapping them and PP stalling them with Strength Sap until they struggle to death. Mind you, V-Create from Impostor still does a lot so you have to be at relatively high HP to do this and I haven't tested this option yet so maybe it's better to just stick with MSun/Growth as the final two moves.

Other Potential Options

:sv/Aegislash: > :registeel: + :sv/zacian: > :giratina:

Still fulfilling the role of a spooky spinblocker, Aegislash can serve as a substitute for Registeel while freeing up the Ice Scales slot to be more flexible. I'm not warm to this change as it is quite a decent bit of bulk lost and given how much Registeel wants to check without FurScales, it wants all the bulk you can get. Still, being more flexible would be nice and open up options. Scales Zacian seems like the best sub in here, lacking many of the weaknesses that proved annoying for Giratina, even if considerably less bulky, can help your MU into things I hope and is an actual fast mon if you sub in like Ho-Oh or Blaziken as 6th slot, but I haven't really tested it. You could also potentially replace MAudino for a different MBounce mon as Zacian can handle the SNR mons somewhat ok. Otherwise Ice Scales mons could also work, but I haven't worked them out yet. With the MBounce mon flexible as long as it sapblock the main FC mons, there's probably a few others (maybe MBounce Ho-Oh for Headlong Diancie with a Scales Yveltal?). Something like Ghostceus as a spinblocker over Fairyceus could also work while working as an improof to Kyu-B but at this point this is a whole new team...

Annoying Matchups

:lunala:
SNR Lunala/Dawn Wings is annoying as Audino no longer can check as SPower blows it up and Giratina obv takes a million. Have to chunk Registeel or Knock with Giratina if it's healthy and it's using Judgement improof.

:diancie-mega: / :gardevoir-mega:With a Scales Dragon the Fairies are naturally annoying. Precipes Blade Diancie is very annoying without Ho-Oh and Specs Gardevoir puts Regi on the brink. You need to cope with not letting them come in safely and maybe sacrifice some of Giratina's HP for a Mortal Spin/Knock.

:beedrill-mega: Always is threatening whenever it comes in as SoR Band Headlong hurts Registeel a lot, but is workable around with its hazard weakness.

:palkia-origin: I haven't seen it yet post shadow-mons but since it is still on the VR I will still bring it up since your matchup into is well, death.
____________________

:mewtwo-mega-y::ho-oh::magearna::arceus-poison::chansey::kyogre-primal:

Another funny team I also used before which was kind of ok. Made this in like 5 minutes trying to make the most broken MMY set and then roll with it to victory because broken mon. Probably can be made better but I'm too lazy, I know Akira suggested FC Ting-Lu which seems like a very funny improof with its raw bulk even if its typing is kind of mid. Also DLC stuff is coming soon so that's pretty cool.
 
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Tea Guzzler

and now her home she has no longer
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Hi everyone! We're about a week into the new meta and we have a survey! This is aiming to decide where to go next with tiering and generally gauge people's enjoyment and greivances with the tier in these early stages. The link's below:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1x-Xn3zMjKYER_bjjyb0WmEus20wtg0Z6Kfz7WkGj1SM/

We don't want to wait too long for action thanks to the meta being so early, so i'll probably do the writeup in about a week's time from today (essentially a closing date of 15th August). Cheers!
 
Hello BH thread. I was minding my own business, chillin on showdown, before I noticed that Darm-G-Zen was allowed and so I made 2 possibly very bad builds

Darmanitan-Galar-Zen @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Glacial Lance
- Flare Blitz / V-create
- Volt Tackle / Knock Off / Headlong Rush / Mortal Spin / Magical Torque? / Toxic?!?!?
- U-turn / Knock Off / Flip Turn
The first set that came to mind was a Mglo set, it's pretty flexible for the fact that it's stabs do most of the work and when they don't it just pivots out. It can also potentially toxic into the things that can beat it on there switch to put a bit more pressure on them (though it can also do that with hazards ig)

Darmanitan-Galar-Zen @ Choice Band / Heavy-Duty-Boots
Ability: Desolate Land / Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Knock Off / Thunderous Kick? (Prob not but still)
- Glacial Lance
- Gigaton Hammer / U-turn / Flower Trick?
With great power comes great responsibility. This thing has the strongest V-Create that's allowed in BH with the exception of protean shenagins and tying with Blaze-mega, though this obviously has a big weakness being rocks. "Well just use boots" Okay, what now? It loses a lot of its fire power without band allowing it to break past some of the things it may get walled by (I assume :woo:)

Basically the only thing I see the hard walls it is waters and the most used one I've personally seen is Pogre who I've only see use Regenvest or Ice Scales which both get kinda beat up by mglo vtackle and banded dland vcreate (or flower trick)


Don't listen to a single word I say, ever
 
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so from my understanding, like is mentioned in op basically every mon in the series is usable, I don't remember exactly how it was before but I believe we were operating with the dex cuts?

I fully support this because the way dex cuts happen is pure dogwater, aaa should do the same thing, based, redpilled, godlike

full salute, salutations to the mod staff, you are holy people


 
here‘s a psy spam team I just built for the fuck of it and having fun with recently.
https://pokepast.es/45fbc54f629b8507
Deo A + MMy overwhelms scales mons while pheromosa hits them pesky steels standard fur Scales core but you might wanna replace imp with another regenvest if ur fine playing ladder without imp(gl). Team does have a few probs against SNR mons/big kart which are proally fixed by replacing imp with something else
 
Trying to innovate with all the cool shiny toys, overall I think this team is really lacking a solid ground counter, but I can't figure out where to fit one in (besides ho-oh). my slash and clod are some of the mons I feel the best about (probably because I have been using slash since gen 6 hackmons, and clod has been my baby since gen 9 started) volcanion in particular feels really rigid, because it gets walled hard by like every dragon type.

bird boi (Ho-Oh) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Strength Sap
- Mortal Spin

Excalibruh (Aegislash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Well-Baked Body
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Nuzzle
- Stone Axe
- Knock Off
- Whirlwind

hot n steamy (Volcanion) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Armor Cannon
- Hydro Steam
- Solar Beam
- Morning Sun

anchor (Necrozma-Dusk-Mane) @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Strength Sap
- Gigaton Hammer
- Bitter Blade
- Leech Seed

frat (Clodsire) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Strength Sap
- Haze
- Destiny Bond
- Mortal Spin

the horns (Heracross-Mega) @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Horn Leech
- Leech Life
- Swords Dance
 

shadowpea

everyone is lonely sometimes
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:mewtwo-mega-y::swampert-mega::arceus-poison::yveltal::golisopod::chansey:

almost certainly not a good team but im 39-1 (because prankbond) on the ladder with this and its variants so i feel i can post this. it is pretty carried by mmy but at the moment no one is bringing sufficient answers to it soooo

struggles alot vs snr ghost (the plan is ppstall), mglo hooh, and some other stuff like chomp and correct coverage mewtwo (as always). golisopod is a interesting idea tho still has problems that are instantly obvious when you look at the set. team also has no steel to block mspin which sucks but goli tries to compensate. someone try stone/zap plate poisonceus i am actually so sick and tired of hooh my god.

mewtwo's stab voltswitch is awesome, its an excellent chipping tool and can bring scales kyo/arceus-x into around astral 2hko range after a single hit and a round of hazards. the last move can be a lot of things like edrift (for kyo and hooh) and ccourse (for dial and chans) but i picked steam to smoke volt blockers as well as being a good offensive stab on its own.

im sure theres a killer voltturn core with mmy out there but in my experience it does well even without that in mind.
 
While I have not been extremely active in BH lately, and this is very much not a big concern, I would like to point out that Shiinotic is flagged as a mythical pokemon in S/V, and Marshadow is not. While it would be funny for their places to be swapped, it would also be confusing and needlessly obscure if the change were to be implemented in the Teambuilder. On the other hand, if we want to be as accurate to the cart as possible, it would be technically correct to change shiinotic's and marshadows positions in the teambuilder. Just something I wanted to bring up. There is also the possibility that since the last time I checked these pieces of info may have been changed by an update, so I may be wrong.
 
My thoughts on Lumina Crash, Mortal Spin, Covert Cloak and the dire state of defensive cores in this meta.

I've been pretty vocal on Discord about my distaste for the current state of the meta. I think building defensive cores is hellish because you are subjecting yourself to the lottery of Mewtwo/Deoxys coverage, and even after that you can easily lose to Lumina Crash or chip damage if your covert cloak gets knocked. The sets themselves are reliant on Covert Cloak, with Yveltal able to use boots sometimes and regenvests obviously using vest. This means your defensive sets are more passive than ever, without the option for semi-selfproofing options like Plate or defensive items that prevent you from easily getting chipped by hazards or pivot moves and having to spam recover.

Sure, banning MMY and Deo-A would undeniably improve the situation. However I don't think it would solve the issue. Moves like Lumina Crash would still be spammable on mixed MMX and the newly viable fast psychics in M-Alakazam, Deo-N and Ultra Necrozma, so your Ice scales mon and Fur coat mon will both still be forced to run Covert Cloak to avoid getting shattered by Lumina Crash. Mortal spin is currently one of the best ways to make progress so that's yet another reason for Cloak on every defensive mon (Steels and Darks are not reliable answers to mortal and lumina users respectively because of powerful coverage options).

So this brings us to my main point. I think Covert Cloak has an extremely negative impact on the meta by allowing other moves that are otherwise broken to go under the radar. Knock off spam + Mortal / Salt Cure etc... is an extremely effective strategy right now, with the only real issue it faces being tricky improofing. In the old meta I saw SI specifically using a Sticky Hold Covert Cloak Etern as a dedicated improof just to be able to spam these moves with no problems. The fact that all these powerful chip options (not to mention Stone Axe) can also fit on RegenVests is just another contributing factor.

Covert Cloak's ability to block Trapping attacks also can make it an extremely frustrating item on Imposter, who is already harder to deal with than it's ever been in previous generations of BH. Having to run the 8PP Bounceable Mean Look or sack two moveslots for Koff/Shackle is unreasonable.
We don't actually know if Thousand Waves will be affected if/when it arrives in the later DLCs, since Gamefreak has not proven themselves particularly consistent with their move flags as of late. So saying "trapping is bad now anyway and once Twaves drops it will bypass cloak" is not an argument.


What tiering action am I proposing to handle this?

What I'm about to suggest may be a little drastic and could easily be toned down. But personally I think drastic action is needed to fix how awful it feels to build in this meta.
First, I think we should ban MMY and Deo-A. This has already been discussed and it seems many people think these mons are broken even without Lumina, so I think banning them first is probably for the best. Maybe I'm wrong and the tier will magically be fine and Lumina / Cloak spam won't be an issue anymore.

However, should the tier still be dominated by Covert Cloak on every defensive mon, I think we should ban it.
As a consequence of banning Covert Cloak, several other moves would need to be banned. Most likely Salt Cure, Mortal Spin and potentially Triple Arrows would need to go.
Then, I'd suggest a suspect test of Stone Axe, since without Mortal Spin the tier will have lost a means of removal, with Rapid Spin blockable and bulky -Ate users pretty rare at the moment, it may prove to be too much.

What do you all think of this? Do you think Covert Cloak is problematic or restrictive? Are the moves Lumina Crash and Mortal Spin the problem? Or am I totally wrong and the issue is with the fast psychics or their incredible coverage options with Libero?
 

Tea Guzzler

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Thought I might as well drop my thoughts on this stuff since we've been discussing it in council chat a decent bit:

Banning Covert Cloak is not the play IMO. Salt Cure is kinda dumb but if we wanted to ban it then having to jump through the hoop of banning Cloak first would not be necessary, Crash is looking like we'll need to ban the big abusers first and then revisit it, and Mortal Spin sorta needs to stay with the removal options honestly being kinda bad. This sounds a bit weird, but -ateSpin is the worst it's ever been (it already was in pre-Full Dex, but now Xerneas doesn't work, which would be the one thing you want -ateSpin on), Tidy Up only works on a limited amount of teams thanks to also clearing your hazards (basically only working on Hazardless/mono-Axe), and Mortal Spin's the best catch-all option outside of these cases. Axe ban only exists to solve a problem we'd have artificially created for ourselves; banning Axe also doesn't dampen the need for removal because Spikes still exists and is very easy to slot on a random demon breaker if you're willing to give up coverage.

A secondary issue with banning Cloak for a lot of moves is that everything that isn't 100% is simply RNG, so there's never going to be an unbiased opinion when accounting for it. Nuzzle becomes even bigger of a problem than it was last gen, meaning we'd likely lose the best form of Speed control in a meta packed with fast nukes. Where do the move bans start and stop (do we take out Magical Torque)? My point here is that Lumina Crash is the only move that's dumb enough to force Cloak spam by itself, so cutting a whole item and severeal other key meta aspects just to have an excuse to ban it seems wild to me. We coped with Cure in pre-dex when arguably the best physical and special walls took double damage from it, and Mortal was also relatively fine, so I don't see why we have to take all this major action just to cope with Crash.

Cloak Imp is just outright worse than Evio aside from specifically annoying Knock-less teams reliant on secondary effects to make progress (not very many) in a meta with the highest power level in recent times. Arguing that this of all things is the thing that breaks Cloak is bizzare to me.

The solution is pretty clear to me: just take out the two scary Psychics and see what happens. The other fast Psychics being "prime Crash abusers" is pure speculation and isn't backed up by good BST distribution (Necrozma's Dragon typing is a defensive drawback and it has to run Dragon Energy for any good Crash follow-up, MZam has piss all bulk / can't go mixed), meaning the much more restricted skillsets these things have will likely heavily dampen Crash's impact. If they become a problem, just ban Crash, and they go away; it's that simple. If we're feeling really spicy then I guess we can ban Salt Cure, but I haven't personally found this to be problematic especially given that Magic Guard runs the meta + stuff barely has room for it.
 
Thought I might as well drop my thoughts on this stuff since we've been discussing it in council chat a decent bit.

The most constraining element in teambuilding is Imposter. However I'm not going to go into this too much because the best and only action we can take on this is waiting for DLC 2, Zygarde drop, and obtaining most important move Thousand Waves.

Other than that, Mewtwo-Mega-Y and Deoxys-Attack need to go. These two mons are basically what is mandating the dual SpD cores present on every team, and yet they are still insufficient. There are no true checks for either mon, you can argue Imposter for MMY but that takes up to 30 from LO sets with no recovery while stuff like Specs Astral 2HKOs. MMY uses its incredibly good bulk for it offensive power to provide longer field presence and more opportunities to stay in and is less prediction reliant. Deo-A on the other hand invalidates Imposter as a soft check, has an even higher speed tier reducing revenge-killing opportunities, and with higher attack can be even harder to wall if it gets the right predictions. Overall MMY is broken through just raw offensive power while Deo-A might be less broken but is more matchup fish. If a Deo-A has the right moveset it just wins and your only out is Imposter speed tie.

It is important to note that these two mons are broken regardless of Lumina. Lumina is useful for MMY to ease prediction, but MMY also has a ton of coverage options it can simply slot over Lumina, and sets like Specs Libero do not even run the move. Meanwhile Deo-A, while can run Lumina on sets like mixed Libero, generally doesn't have the bulk to use it as effectively, and thus Lumina is also a minor factor here.

After that, Mewtwo-Mega-X is an element that can be discussed. It is obviously the best abuser of Lumina, however if Lumina is only breaking MMX and nothing else, then MMX should be the one to be banned. However I think there is no conclusive evidence of MMX due to it currently not being a major issue and the defensive meta changing moderately with the two mons banned.

The other Psychics using Lumina is pure speculation. Deo-N is noticeably weaker, Zam has 0 mixed presence, Ultra is weaker and has the Dragon-typing (double edged, but crucially means it cannot Libero Lumina).

Beyond that, I think Covert Cloak will start facing competition from other items. Signature items are unknockable and provide a power boost, Leftovers and Boots provide crucial longevity for 8 PP recovery, Helmet is ever so useful utility if it can be fitted.
Cloak Imp is just outright worse than Evio aside from specifically annoying Knock-less teams reliant on secondary effects to make progress (not very many) in a meta with the highest power level in recent times. Arguing that this of all things is the thing that breaks Cloak is bizzare to me.
Also as one of the advocates that Cloak Imp is good, I have to agree with Tea here that while MMY is in the meta, and to an extent some other threats too, Eviolite bulk is extremely desirable. With MMY banned I do see cloak imp being ever so more viable, because at the end of the day its still Imp and its an Imp that does even better vs fatter teams.

Mortal Spin is undeniably strong and it has its effect on the builder, mandating a Steel-type on every team. However we have a great diversity of useable Steel-types and the high diversity also means Mortal isn't very reliable because its hard to actually cover for all of them with 1 or 2 moves. Also agree with the above on Mortal being necessary for removal. Tidy Up is not good removal, and Spin needs to be on select mons like Yveltal and Ghost-types to be reliable.

If Mortal does somehow become overbearing and needs to be banned, I think Stone Axe needs to go. Stone Axe is an incredibly easy to click move, especially on RegenVest mons. RegenVest is the best it has ever been, with a lack of viable trapping options one of its main issues of not being able to effectively use those trapping moves made it a significantly less appealing option to Scales (see: ND, which even has CEdge legal). Stone Axe is just another tool that buffs RegenVest further and I think the progress making from it is too easy, you cannot prevent the Rocks from going up. However we do then go into the question of is Bounce meta desirable which is something I have doubts about. Forcing double hazards to not get Bounce matchuped and then improofing them etc seems very restrictive.

Salt Cure is not that easy to fit and the effectiveness against Water- and Steel-types incentivizing Cloak on them is pretty similar for me to incentivizing/forcing Boots on rocks weak mons. Even in mid ladder hell I haven't found that many Salt Cure users.

Summary: Ban Deo-A, MMY, defensive meta gets freed up letting players experiment with new stuff, watch other stuff.
 

cityscapes

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Mortal Spin is undeniably strong and it has its effect on the builder, mandating a Steel-type on every team. However we have a great diversity of useable Steel-types and the high diversity also means Mortal isn't very reliable because its hard to actually cover for all of them with 1 or 2 moves. Also agree with the above on Mortal being necessary for removal. Tidy Up is not good removal, and Spin needs to be on select mons like Yveltal and Ghost-types to be reliable.
Mortal Spin sorta needs to stay with the removal options honestly being kinda bad. This sounds a bit weird, but -ateSpin is the worst it's ever been (it already was in pre-Full Dex, but now Xerneas doesn't work, which would be the one thing you want -ateSpin on), Tidy Up only works on a limited amount of teams thanks to also clearing your hazards (basically only working on Hazardless/mono-Axe), and Mortal Spin's the best catch-all option outside of these cases.
what on earth is this argument to keep mortal spin in the meta under the premise that it is "needed" despite being in itself unreliable? i don't know about you guys but i think blockable removal options that you run on non-threatening defensive guys are inherently poor and i don't think any good team should "need" them.

what people need to understand is that mortal spin would still be a really fuckin good move even if it didn't remove hazards, especially when you consider regenvest. in situations where sudden death isn't a pressing possibility, forcing a mon to waste a turn recovering every 4 turns is equivalent to nuzzle in terms of tempo. regular poison doesn't have rng involved but this honestly doesn't make things much better for the poisoned mon, who in a poor position must give their opponent telegraphed opportunities (i.e. when they are at 50% or below). also of course there's the issue of poisoned mons watching their precious recovery pp waste away, while paralyzed mons do not have this issue.

and of course even if you have a poison type, mg, flare boost, etc for halting progress, you still allow removal. wonderful

nah your mum — Today at 4:15 AM
i have not personally used or seen successful teams with their main walls being steel and water
in my eyes these are just BEGGING to be sniped by coverage like hjk or edrift

speaking of which, look at my mortal spin blockers dawg, we are never escaping the sludge. what tea means here isn't that steels are inherently bad (that's me), but moreso that they're better/more common in secondary wall roles.

for an example of this we don't need to look any further than ye olde regenvest steelix. very hard to bypass with any mortal user, and importantly near impossible to force out from full: only vcreate users, sword of ruin mmx, and (more niche) cb chomp, certain palkia, offensive ogre, resh? can do it. so the idea of this mon is to take space: come in on an opponent's slow pivot, and serve as a shield that denies them from converting that pivot into anything useful.

essentially the mon acts as a 10 foot pole that you hold out and are like DON'T COME ANY CLOSER. what do opponents do if they don't happen to carry one of these answers? the most matchup-agnostic option here of course is to bring in imposter, which is the equivalent of responding to their 10-foot pole with a 20-foot pole and being like NO! NO!! YOU STAY AWAY!!! while your 5 other mons, light-years away from the action, just look on in silence.

why am i bringing this up? because this is why ate spin and tidy up are bad. every ate that doesn't focus on immediately killing things in front of it like diancie (and i mean, even that, have fun killing 100% steelix with vcreate) has to contend with This Motherfucker being in when they arrive and threatening to--get this--poison them with mortal spin. aerilate yveltal? ho-oh? fairyceus? ices (if they exist)? mortal for each one of them. covert cloak -ate is comparably bad to boots -ate; tidy up, meanwhile, is hyper-reliant on not losing their item to have any hope of playing against imposter. i guess you use sap + blocker imposter proofer but then you have 2 soy pokemon and you get eaten by mewtwo
If Mortal does somehow become overbearing and needs to be banned, I think Stone Axe needs to go. Stone Axe is an incredibly easy to click move, especially on RegenVest mons.
one time i was using regen vcreate tidy teleport ho-oh (one of the only viable regen no vest mons imo) and i got stone axed for 70 by regenvest and i was like huh i guess this is my life now. personal complaints aside, stone axe is kind of the nail in the coffin for most prospective non-mortal hazard removers, especially aerilate (the most usable ate) who is weak to both the move and to the hazard itself, of course making cloak aerilate laughable unless you run literally like celesteela (and in the same vein pixilate magearna) who has all the same issues as it had in gen 8 but now you also get to be a steel that takes 0 space ever and loses to quite a bit of mortal users actually
 
Just started playing this meta seriously. This post is gonna briefly go over some of my thoughts and what team I'm using. May clarify some thoughts when I feel like it. Putting down rough ideas for now.

https://pokepast.es/2f9070676d03e47e

This team is built around the idea of giving light counters before having MMX completely break through. Generic RegenVest Arc-Fairy utilizing the absurdly good secondary-effect attacks introduced. Mixed FC Chansey Wall which shrugs off most special threats while also acting as support and healing (mayhaps my calling card in terms of team building). Amnael inspired Ting Lu - improofing itself given decreased usage of GaG, for countering special setup, which is pivoted into should things go out of hand. General purpose Imposter Blissey fitted with a Spooky Plate to capitalize on any Arc-Ghosts though this may be overpreparation considering Ting Lu. And finally the star of the show MMX fitted with Physical BoltBeam+V-Create+Pivot leveraging Protean to gain STAB on whatever it throws out.

Currently unsure what to do with Arc-Fairy. I'm hoping to simulate a Special Wall, like Ice Scales Fairy, while also keeping RegenVest aspects. I've considered sticking with Dialga-O but the amount of physically focused Mega evolutions makes this iffy at best.

Thoughts on the Meta:
In the past, I have been a very vocal proponent about banning/limiting the effectiveness of Imposter. However, in times like these Imposter is needed. Previous generations featured too many hard hitting nukes to reliably counter; Imposter deters hyperoffense by threatening Tzar Bomba with Godemperor Bomba. One-hit machines like Sceptile-M, MMY and MMX would have no counter besides the otherworldly bulk of the Chansey-line. All in all, this is a rare Imposter W.

There is a real lack of special walls to offset the immense phyical bulk of the 230 base Defense Steelix-M and Aggron-M. It definitely feels like Special attacking chances are much more favored once again and it's made worse with MMY and Alakazam-M. The Special pressure on the metagame, especially with Psychic types, calls for a review of MMY, Deoxys-A and Alakazam-M. Dark types offer a consistent counter but are a bit limited in options. Still, Greninja-A and Ting Lu are the few and the proud.

Covert Cloak is being centralized and I'd argue it is the Imposter of items. With so many 100% secondary effect moves scattered about, Covert Cloak is nessesary to the point where I run 2 Knock Off Pokemon just in case I find potential problems. Banning Covert Cloak would not be healthy and the waves of suspects on Nuzzle, Salt Cure, Mortal Spin, etc. removes some of the best forms of control available.

Releasing the old wave of Steel types have added much more physical defense options to the game, which I appreciate greatly. It feels so much better not having the rely on Dondozo or Groudon as physical walls. At the same time, new Steels decrease the effect of Mortal Spin and I feel the Hazard game is starting to pick up again. Tidy Up, while great, is limited to a 16 PP movepool and is torn between hazard control and setup which means twice as much (theoretically) PP expenditure.

One thing that suprised me though is the lack of -ate/-ite users which I thought would pick up. Banning Rayquaza-M is likely the reason as the divide between Kyurem-W/B is too great.

TLDR: Meta is a bit boring, torn between nukes and walls. Special offense is a bit too broken at the moment due to MMY and Lumina. Covert Cloak and Imposter are needed now more than ever.
 

Tea Guzzler

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Hi everyone! We have survey results and also a ban.

Question 1: How much are you currently enjoying BH?
1692135330530.png

The average score here is 7.475, up from last time's 7.05. The new meta seems to have improved people's opinions on the tier, and there's also much more traffic going on, which is good to see. A few outliers near the bottom end might be of concern, although this early on it's hard to tell.

Question 2: How competitive do you think the tier is?
1692135442604.png

The average here is 6.9, which is the same as last time. This is probably co-incidental, although there's a slightly larger distribution of results here, and it can probably be blamed on the fact that the meta is new and things can change very quickly. The survey itself has also disincentivised tiering action for the time it was up so we could get consistent results, which could also play a factor here.

Question 3: How good do you think building is?
1692135460239.png

Average here is 6.62, slightly up from last time's 6.45. I've spoken to a few people and it seems like there's a great deal of flexibility with offensive building, but much less with defensive building. This can be attributed to things like Mega Mewtwo Y, Lumina Crash, Deoxys-A, and the like. Having one-sided building in this way isn't something i'm personally bothered with, but probably shouldn't persist for too long for the sake of metagame diversity.

Question 4: What do you think about Mega Mewtwo Y?
1692135491970.png

Mega Mewtwo Y received a resounding 95% not opposed to action and 80% in favour of action. MMY seems to have taken one step back and three forward from SM, as the loss of Light of Ruin and Bolt Strike haven't really bothered it. Magic Guard has become by far the most common and arguably effective set, with Lumina Crash forcing Covert Cloak on almost everything and most walls having to play the coverage lottery, and Protean sets not being too far behind (usually Choice Specs). Getting the jump on MMX, Miraidon, Ash-Greninja, Eternatus, Zacian, and the like is also a very strong tool.

Question 5: What do you think about Mega Mewtwo X?
1692135623233.png

MMX was received much better, with a far lower proportion in favour of action. MMX's main greivances seem to lie with its mixed sets, notably its Lumina Crash ones, which can dispatch standard physical walls while also packing STAB Close Combat to break past special ones; these are also often Magic Guard, making passive damage not an option for winning long-term. Other sets, like Choice Band and Tough Claws, are effective but generally less overbearing and have more room for counterplay.

Question 6: What do you think about Deoxys-Attack?
1692135642287.png

Deoxys-A seems to be marginally more problematic than MMX, but not by much. Deo-A is much harder to wall thanks to 180/180 offenses and being much harder to outspeed, and Protean sets often pack the coverage to delete basically anything with good prediction. In addition, thanks to the paper defenses, Imposter doesn't work as a soft-check to this. However, it's held back by the scariest sets being very annoying to Imposter-proof, and it also requires mandatory slow pivot support and good play, which hold it back on most teams.

Question 7: What do you think about No Retreat?
1692135660852.png

No Retreat was something that a few people had brought up in OM Discord, so we thought it'd be worth putting here. It seems that it's generally viewed as fine. Most No Retreat sweepers, like Arceus-Ghost and Lunala, are potent when set up but can struggle to find windows to both safely set up and recover; in addition, both tend to lack outright OHKO power against potential walls, and Haze can slow them down a lot. Lunala's tendency to run Final Gambit also cuts its longevity and makes Dark-types like Ting-Lu and Yveltal pretty good stopgaps.

Question 8: Any further comments?
These aren't copy/pasteable, so i've manually gone through and listed recurring points:
  • Imposter (mentioned twice)
  • Substitute Unban
  • Forme Clause (no qt)
  • Mega Diancie (mentioned twice)
  • Triple Arrows
  • FurScales
  • Protean
  • Lumina Crash
  • Salt Cure
  • Stone Axe
Unlike the previous survey we didn't really get any repeat offenders in the further comments; feedback was about as expected. Of the things that were mentioned twice, Imposter is a mainstay and will realistically never be banned, and Mega Diancie doesn't have too much support for tiering action. Other things like Salt Cure, Triple Arrows, and Lumina Crash will be monitored, but since these are moves, the bar for banning them is higher, as multiple Pokemon need to break the move in order for it to be considered (as per tiering policy).

As a result of the above information, we decided to vote on Mega Mewtwo Y, since it was the most problematic from the survey results. The votes are as follows:
////////////Tea GuzzleraugustakiraChessking345TTTechquojova
Mega Mewtwo YBanBanBanBanAbstain
As a result, Mega Mewtwo Y is banned from Balanced Hackmons! MMY has been complained about a lot thanks to its insane stat spread, STAB on Lumina Crash, and ability to run coverage that allows it to bypass any check, including Imposter. Chloroblast, High Jump Kick, Knock Off, Steel Beam, Volt Tackle, and even just brute force with Choice Specs all allow it to be wildly unpredictable and essentially force opponents to play the coverage lottery with whether they're able to defensively answer it or not. We don't think that having it's restrictive effect on teambuilding is healthy for the metagame. With MMY gone, the main Lumina Crash attacker is also gone, which may potentially free up the item slot on special walls, allowing them to check other threats like Deoxys-A better.

Tagging Kris to implement.
 
Hey BH community,

It's been a privilege to lead this metagame for the last few months or so. I've had a great time playing on ladder or tournaments, engaging in discussions about the metagame, and trying to make the best tiering decisions. But given other commitments making it tough for me to contribute to council for the foreseeable future, now is the right time for me to step down as BH tier leader. I know Tea Guzzler, the other tier leader, will do a fantastic job in the role as he has already been doing. He undoubtedly has a great understanding of the tier and a strong passion for contributing to BH and making it accessible, so the tier is in good hands.

Thank you everyone for playing and contributing to BH! You might still see me around on ladder occasionally, don't hesitate to say hi if you do. :)
 

shadowpea

everyone is lonely sometimes
is a Tiering Contributor
1692568907780.png

lumiya (Reshiram) @ Draco Plate
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- V-create
- Judgment
- Moonlight / Strength Sap
- Growth

(til lumiya is a star wars character)

resh is a bomb. its mixed, stupidly powerful, not paper-thin, and actually holds a bit of defensive utility so imo its pretty awesome. imposter cant switch in on growth since you 2hko with +2 supereffective judge which they cant match immediately.

+2 252+ Atk Reshiram V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal in Harsh Sunshine: 386-455 (95.5 - 112.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Draco Plate Reshiram Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Dondozo: 450-529 (89.2 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Reshiram V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Arceus in Harsh Sunshine: 318-375 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Draco Plate Reshiram Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 304-358 (68.4 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Draco Plate Reshiram Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 252- SpD Reshiram (250 HP): 452-534 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

weaknesses:
- slow
- knock weak
- prone to status (i ran heal bell support)
- slow lol being slower than arc unsurprisingly blows
- hazards weak
- fLasH fIRe tElEpORt

id share teams but they are shit so yeah thats it this time bye
 

Tea Guzzler

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Been meaning to make a post on this for a few days now, but the next big tiering thing on my radar is looking to be Deoxys-Attack. The main reason for this is that consistently walling it is not an option (similar to MMY), but unlike MMY, it's much more willing to go mixed thanks to its stat spread, and there's noticeably higher opportunity cost to going mono-category than mono-special mmy. Here's basically the rundown:
  • Deo-A's main set is Protean, as this gives an insane jump to basically all moves and can be comboed with Lumina Crash (as using Crash doesn't proc its Protean, meaning you can follow up with something like a Protean Astral onto a -2 target). Always mixed.
  • Magic Guard is another option, but the ability's main use here is allowing for the free spam of nukes like High Jump Kick and Chloroblast as opposed to negating passive damage / absorbing Mortal Spin. Also always mixed.
  • Other options like Psychic Surge exist but aren't particularly common.
This is a set i've had a good amount of success with:

:sm/deoxys-attack:
Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Glacial Lance
- Astral Barrage
- Volt Switch

A set like this is basically unwallable. IMO Astral is non-negotiable on Protean; Deoxys-A has enough power to where it can 2HKO basically the entire tier with neutral coverage, and Astral is basically the best option for a special move to fit that bill. Ground/Ice does a similar job of hitting stuff neutrally, with Glance also being highly spammable and no relevant Darks really wanting to switch in on it. Volt Switch makes dancing around checks easier by basically axing prediction and dealing non-trivial damage to switch-ins (like up to 42% to RegenVest POgre).

Improofing a set like this is always the biggest issue, since it basically forces you into some variant of a Fur Coat Ghost resist (usually something like Ting-Lu or Mega Audino), both of which are almost never good options for Fur Coat users and thus usually forcing you to go double Fur Coat. Concessions can be made to Deoxys' set to make Imposter-proofing easier, like going with Glaive Rush + U-turn and Improofing with Fur Coat Yveltal, but there's only so few that can be made without heavily compromising on how spammable its moves are.

So what can be done? Well, since it's largely only Deoxys-A using Protean, we can't really remove that in order to nerf it, although it would be a major step down; every other boosting ability is smaller and either only influences one side of the attacking spectrum or (in Neuroforce's case) doesn't benefit Deo doing enough to beat stuff with neutral hits. If it does end up being problematic in too many people's eyes, the likely route would just be to ban it, since something like a Lumina Crash ban wouldn't fix the fundemental issue of being a near-unwallable coverage fish.

:sm/deoxys:
I've seen small amounts of discussion on "If Deo-A is banned, Deo-N will just do the same thing but slightly worse"; it's not completely unfounded, so I thought i'd have a look through some relevant calcs and show the major differences below (changing from Deo-A to Deo-N), all calced with Naive:
  • A Protean-boosted 120 BP move (like Glacial Lance or Astral Barrage) goes from a guaranteed 2HKO on non-FurScales Arceus to an unfavoured 2HKO roll.
  • Eviolite Imposter Chansey goes from always OHKOed by Protean Astral to never OHKOed. Neutral moves like Headlong Rush go from a guaranteed 2HKO to a 90.1% 3HKO. Protean U-turn goes from a guaranteed 2HKO to guaranteed 3HKO. Aside from the 3HKO on Headlong being guaranteed, all of this applies to Hasty as well.
  • Astral -> Headlong onto RegenVest Mega Steelix goes from basically always KOing to only KOing with two basically-max rolls.
  • MDiancie ESpeed goes from always KOing to only KOing with Pixie Plate on a max roll or 9/16 with Life Orb.
I didn't notice anything else looking down the VR. If Deo-N does end up being problematic, we'd be much more inclined to look at Protean than we are now, but arguing over whether we can ban it now doesn't solve anything when nobody's going to use Deo-N unless Deo-A's gone.
 

Don Bozo

Banned deucer.
Greetings. I am back with another sales pitch, this time on underrated mons that can check deo a and mmx. I hope you try them out but if not, at least enjoy reading this post. Now then, let's be on our way.

Are you tired of losing to deo a? Do you struggle to find sets that are able to consistently take two hits from its numerous coverage? Are you frustrated that your supposed check is 2HKO'd by an unexpected coverage move that no one runs? What if I tell you... that you DO NOT have to be the victim. That you DO NOT have to stand there terrified and motionless as the enemy deo a raises its hand ready to molest your mons. That you DO NOT have to condone such malicious act of assault. What if I tell you that the best way to not get 2HKO'd by deo a... is to not get hit twice at all but to retaliate with such violence that there will be no more abuser.


Heracross-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish / Careful Nature
- First Impression
- U-turn
- Thunderous Kick
- Mortal Spin

The first set I will talk about is RegenVest MHera. This mon possesses several unique characteristics which makes it a reasonable deo a check and RegenVest mon. The most important aspect is its bug typing and powerful First Impression and U-turn. Just believe me when I say that a non SE First Impression from neutral attack MHera does at least 107% to max Def deo a. Thanks to its reasonable bulk and typing, there is not one common move that deo a run which can OHKO MHera. This means that unless they clicked Astral Barrage, they will be forced to switch out. This is perfectly fine because we run U-turn, allowing us to become the offender on their switchin. Now you may be wondering "does MHera do anything other than be a mediocre Deo a check?" The answer to that is yes. For one, it's fighting type allows it to also soft check MMX without lumina, especially if they run HJK and wicked blow. MHera can come in on one of these moves and do a good chunk with U-turn or outright kill when they are low. Uturn does 28 min and FI does 37 min. LO hjk only does 42 Max on careful nature. The choice between Impish and careful depends on if you want to tank astral and lumina better or hjk and wicked blow. Outside of the deo a and mmx matchup, MHera also can spin re liable due to its fighting type. It is able to apply pressure on steels very well. Triple arrows, collision course and low kick are alternatives for thubnerous kick. You can also change Spin to a different move if you want to improof with a specific mon.


Tyranitar-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Stone Axe
- U-turn

The next set is RegenVest MTar. This mon is significantly bulkier than MHera and is able to take one LO libero Headlong from deo a (18% chance to OHKO). This mon runs Sucker Punch as the priority move. It's not as strong as MHera so it only does 75-90% when not SE. However this usually means that the deo a can only attack twice before dying to LO recoil. MTar is blessed with two of the best moves in the entire game: knock off and Stone axe. I think everyone should be familiar of how good these two moves are on a regenvest mon so I won't go over them but I will mention that MTar has STAB on both. The final move is uturn to gain momentum when you force the switch. I will briefly talk about the type coverage between MHera and MTar. MHera does not want the deo a to click lumina, astral and the rare vcreate because those two moves do a lot. Lumina is manageable because you can still FI but you can't OHKO the deo a if it turns unti a ghost type. Vcreate just ohkos. Meanwhile, MTar's typing allows it to take those three moves with ease. MTar does not want to take collision or headlong. MHera is fine taking those. This makes the two a great pair. If you predict well, you can take minimal damage and regen it all as you click uturn. I know you may argue "well these mons are useless if they run Fleur Cannon because they get OHKO'd", and it's true. The reality is that it is impossible to wall every single move in the game from a LO libero deo a. It is what it is.


Arceus-Fairy @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Revelation Dance / Moonblast
- Earth Power
- U-turn
- Fleur Cannon / Spikes

You may have heard of Scarf Regen Solgaleo but have you heard of scarf regen fairyceus? The above two mons can't deal with lumina/collision mmx for obvious reasons. Unlike deo a, you can't really OHKO an mmx. But you can threaten it with a fairyceus. Fairyceus is one of the very few mons that mmx and deo a can't hit super-effectively. Yes they can run MG LO steel beam but that's rare. This set does exactly what you'd expect. Come in on deo's glance, astral or whatever and threaten to OHKO with revelation dance. You take 50 from those moves but at least you have regen. Same thing with mmx but it's now a 2hko and they do less damage than deo a. Uturn for momentum (also does 70 if SE on deo a). Last two moves are flexible. I run earth power for steels but you can run lava plume, scorching sands, Nuzzle, spin, Knock or whatever you want. Fleur cannon is nice because you can OHKO mmx after 20% chip or so. I run modest so revelation dance always OHKO deo a after LO, but neutral does min 80 to 106 so if you're OK with a roll, bold and calm are alternatives.

I'll post a team below but I just want to quickly mention that Ho-oh has great synergy with these 3 mons. You can imposterproof MHera and Arceus while giving free rocks for MTar.


Scizor-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- First Impression
- U-turn
- Gigaton Hammer
- Bullet Punch

The last set I will advertise is RegenVest MSciz. This mon performs similarly to MHera. It resists lumina and can gigaton through a ghost type deo a but worse against mmx (MHera can if they don't have lumina). It can softcheck non fire coverage MDiancie, kyu b and spinblock but it can't beat steels without coverage. Also doesnt resist fughting and dark for MTar. This mon is definitely a sidegrade to MHera. It has some trade-offs and you can try either one. The only core moves are FI and u-turn. The rest can be replaced with whatever you want.

Here is a sample team if anyone's interested is piqued. https://pokepast.es/8899bd2487f3650d

That's it for my sales pitch today and thank you for reading. I do expect deo a to get banned so use these mons quickly before their stonks plummet to the ground.
 

Tea Guzzler

and now her home she has no longer
is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
Well, it was probably bound to happen eventually.
Deoxys-A has been banned from Balanced Hackmons!
//////////////Tea GuzzleraugustakiraChessking345TTTech
Deoxys-ABanBanBanBan
The simple reasoning is that Deo-A's insane mixed attacking stats allow it to pick off just about anything it wants to given good prediction, and it does so while also nuking Imposter and being incredibly fast. Protean sets have enough power to where they can 2HKO basically entire tier with neutral coverage, forcing Regenerator on most structures to safely scout the move it locks into; this set also benefits from factors like the insane spammability of Astral Barrage and Headlong Rush, and Lumina Crash not activating Protean, meaning the follow-up Astral Barrage does. Magic Guard sets also exist to spam high-powered recoil moves like High Jump Kick and Steel Beam with impunity, albeit these sets are generally easier (but still hard) to handle due to the lower damage output. The lose-lose nature of predicting against Deoxys-A sets, being that you either lose a mon or get put in a really awkward defensive position and Deoxys is still alive, in addition to simply bypassing most standard checks with coverage, are something that we don't think is healthy to have to deal with.

Tagging Kris to implement.

Also, go sign up for the BH money tour! It has a US$80 grand prize!
 
It has recently came to my attention that some "inaccessible moves," despite being unusable in most cases, are still accessible my Metronome. Moves like Moongeist Beam, Anchor Shot ad Clanging Scales are still usable under the condition that it is via Metronome RNG. Given that these moves are still in the code of the game and accessible under different conditions, should this result in these "inaccessible moves" being freed into Hackmons? If the council is already aware of this and chose to exclude these banned moves anyways, what was the motivation behind that? Personally, I think freeing up these Metronome accessible moves to be able to be used in G9BH would be helpful and give players more tools and checks in terms of team building.
 

Tea Guzzler

and now her home she has no longer
is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
It has recently came to my attention that some "inaccessible moves," despite being unusable in most cases, are still accessible my Metronome. Moves like Moongeist Beam, Anchor Shot ad Clanging Scales are still usable under the condition that it is via Metronome RNG. Given that these moves are still in the code of the game and accessible under different conditions, should this result in these "inaccessible moves" being freed into Hackmons? If the council is already aware of this and chose to exclude these banned moves anyways, what was the motivation behind that? Personally, I think freeing up these Metronome accessible moves to be able to be used in G9BH would be helpful and give players more tools and checks in terms of team building.
Even if these are Metronome callable (i've seen the move spreadsheet and that these have the "Can be called by Metronome" flag, but not actually seen the moves be used on cart), the point still stands that the actual "Anchor Shot" button does not work. Since this is the case, Anchor Shot (and the rest) will not be freed, since this would deviate from cartridge mechanics. Hacking custom Metronome queues to bypass this restriction is also a hack that falls out of the scope of what BH defines.
 
It has recently came to my attention that some "inaccessible moves," despite being unusable in most cases, are still accessible my Metronome. Moves like Moongeist Beam, Anchor Shot ad Clanging Scales are still usable under the condition that it is via Metronome RNG. Given that these moves are still in the code of the game and accessible under different conditions, should this result in these "inaccessible moves" being freed into Hackmons? If the council is already aware of this and chose to exclude these banned moves anyways, what was the motivation behind that? Personally, I think freeing up these Metronome accessible moves to be able to be used in G9BH would be helpful and give players more tools and checks in terms of team building.
Do you mean those moves can be called by Metronome on cart? Cuz I’ve played literally over a thousand games of gen 9 Metronome Battle and never once seen any such move be called, nor do I see any indication in the code that this could be possible in any gen 9 format on PS right now. Metronome can call an handful of unobtainable moves like Grassy Glide that aren’t marked as unusable, but those are already available in BH.
 

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